| Title | : | Fordringsägare |
| Author | : | |
| Rating | : | |
| ISBN | : | - |
| Language | : | Swedish |
| Format Type | : | Kindle , Hardcover , Paperback , Audiobook & More |
| Number of Pages | : | - |
| Publication | : | First published January 1, 1888 |
Fordringsägare Reviews
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أنت لست إلا ما أخذت، والدائنون سيظهرون آجلا أم عاجلا
السؤال: حين يظهرون هل سنكون مستعدين للدفع ؟
فكر قليلا في حياتك، ستجد نفسك مديونا في كل لحظة من لحظات حياتك، بداية من لحظة ميلادك، وحتي وفاتك، وبعد وفاتك أيضا، ربما تظل مديونا، ولا أقصد هنا دين الأموال فقط، لا، فهذا أسهل دين يمكنك رده، هناك دين التربية، والرعاية، والشرف، والسمعة الطيبة، وكوب الشاي الذي تقدمه لك والدتك، وسقف المنزل الذي يرعاك فيه والدك، فلقد أخذت الكثير، ويوما ما سيتوجب عليك رد الكثير
أنت دائن أيضا .. غيرك يدين لك بالكثير، ومهما قلت في نفسك أنك لا تنتظر الرد، إلا أنك ستتذكر الخير الذي فعلته لغيرك حين يرده لك بالإساءة
وربما فعلت الشر، فتوقعه مصيرك أنت ايضا يوما ما
بنقول في المثل المصري: كله سلف ودين
ونقول أيضا من أعمالكم سُلط عليكم
المشكلة في توقيت الرد .. متي ؟؟
متي سيتوجب عليّ رد ديني ؟ وبأي طريقة ؟
إن الانتقام أصعب أنواع الرد، وكما يُقال : إن الانتقام
طبق يقدم باردا
فالدائن لا ينسي دينه أبدا، مهما أوهمك بأنه قد نسي، وسيجعلك تدفع بالطريقة التي ترضيه هو، فترد الدين، وفوقه غرامة التأخير، الفوائد المركبة من الحسرة والندم وتعب السنين
فلا تنسي دينك، لأن الدائن لن يتركه
...
أوغست ستريندبيرغ .. الكاتب السويدي الشهير، لقد أصبحت من الكتاب المفضلين لدي، وسيكون لك ملف باسمك في مكتبتي المتواضعة
🌷🌷 -
أنت مدينٌ لي ..
لا تتساءل مجفلاً أنا ؟؟!....أجل أنت..
كما إنني اود طمأنتك بأنني كذلك مدينة لك...
كلنا دائنون..ومدينون..
من منا لا يدين للآخر باعتذار..، كلمة شكر..، امتنان..، طلب الصفح والمسامحة....
لابد وعلى كل منا أن يشعر بأنه مدين للآخر بدين عليه سداده دون مطالبة وإلا لاستولى علينا الشعور بالأنانية والغرور الأجوف ولتوهمنا أنه باستطاعتنا الاكتفاء بأنفسنا...
هذه المسرحية تنتمي للأدب السويدي من فصل واحد حيث تجسد كيف يمكن للمرء أن يفني ذاته من أجل الآخر ، يُبدد كل ما يملك ليدرك في النهاية انه يود الاحتفاظ بما لم يكن له...
عندما يبذل المرء العطاء ينتظر الأخذ ، فتلك طبيعة انسانية يستحيل التنصل منها ...، حتى اذا ما خذله الآخر عندئذٍ يصبح كالدائن الذي يطرق الأبواب مطالباً بالدين، تصفع الأبواب في وجهه ..لقد غدا مرفوضاً ..لم يعد مرغوباً...
قد يحيل ذلك الحياة جحيماً ..وهنالك من يطغى عليه الرغبة في الانتقام عندئذٍ يحاول جاهداً أن يسترد ولو جزء من الدين وإن كان ذلك يعني أن يُحطم كيان الآخر ويدمر حياته....
واخيراً .. الكاتب السويدي " اوغست سترندبرغ" يبهرني بقدرته على تجسيد حياة في فصل واحد يخبرك بكل شيء... -
*1.5/5
The Creditors by
August Strindberg is a short play featuring three main leads.
Adolf, a sickly artist, Thekla, his wife who is a writer and Gustaf, Thekla's ex husband who travels under a pseudonym and wants to take revenge on them both.
The married couple, who travel as siblings for some reason -and treat each other as such even when they are alone- spend most of their time apart. Thekla is socializing with everyone but her husband and Adolf spends his time, almost, all alone. See, he has made a friend within these past few days and he keeps him company when Thekla is out. He is a professor who, for some reason, advices him on how to stop being jealous of his wife, and shames him for worshipping her still.
The professor, who is actually Thekla's ex husband whom she abandoned in order to run away with Adolf, tells him to put his advice into practice when she returns, while he will remain hidden in the next room.
When Thekla comes back, she tells Adolf about the time she spent alone and who she met but he is having none of it. He expresses his jealousy again and again only to be shamed about that.
After that, he exits and she is left alone. And it doesn't take long for Gustaf to get back there and surprise her. They are catching up but he confesses that he isn't over her and wants to take her back. And then he kisses her. But after the kiss, he reveals that all along he had a plan. Manipulate Adolf to see her as she really is so that he would start acting up instead of being passive and their relationship would sour, as well as ridiculing her in front of everyone (thus why he kissed her). He also admits that she ruined all women for him and that's why he doesn't wish to be married again.
While he talks, strange noises start coming from the next room. Thekla forces her way into there only to discover Adolf lying half dead on the floor after having a seizure. She is taken by his loss, begins to mourn and begs for him to regain consciousness. Gustaf, speaking to himself, realizes that she really did love Adolf and now feels pity about her.
And that's how the play ends.
I think this was a slight improvement over the last play I read by Strindberg,
Miss Julie but not by much. At least reading this didn't made me hate myself, and I think I am gonna give it to the guy, at least he knew how to compose a complete sentence.
But again, I was met with so many things I didn't like.
Given the fact that this play, similar to the previous one, has a very weak plot, I think I am going to describe its flaws by listing what I didn't like about the characters.
First of all, let's talk about Gustaf, the scorned husband. Of course he is going to be angry after he is abandoned by his wife. But his character never gets any more depth than that of the ex husband. Probably the author wanted to also show us how smart he is, since he conducts a plan to mess the lives of Adolf and Thekla. And that's a big maybe.
He also says the most weird things. And the most misogynistic things if I may say.
For example, one of his advices to Adolf, is abstinence because if he is having too much sex, he will be prone to seizures (well, he did die because of one but I think that happened because he saw the love of his life kissing her ex).
And of course, I wouldn't leave out the misogyny. It was a main focus in Miss Julie and it's still the main focus here.
Gustaf, tells Adolf that he shouldn't love a "worthless, stupid and provocative creature, whose power comes only from what's between of her legs, who owes her ideals and place in society to him and who does nothing but bleeding once every month."
Because God forbid women being more than their sexual organs, show off their skin, and are given credit for their accomplishments, instead of the guy taking it! I know one could say that these are not the author's thoughts but the characters' but let me remind you again, that this is not the first time I read something considered misogynistic by him.
Also, his "women are just little boys with breasts" line, uhm, dude, that's creepy -and wrong-.
Even the pity Gustaf feels for Thekla in the end, I don't think it was because his plan ended up costing Adolf's life, but because in his eyes, he is also weak and worthless, and how dare Thekla pick Adolf over him!
But Thekla herself is not any better.
First of all, she is a cheater, which is never a good look. And not only to Gustaf, but to Adolf as well (keep that in mind kids once a cheater, always a cheater )
Specifically to Adolf, she makes no effort to hide the fact that she has met and charmed many other men, and similar to Gustaf, shames him for expressing his jealousy, although each of them does it for different reasons.
Also the fact that she calls him brother even when they are alone, but are in fact a couple, that's creepy too!
She is emotionally detached from Adolf and I don't know what made her feel like that or why she still is with him. Seeing why their relationship is like that or why she doesn't end it would be interesting, but we never actually figure that out. Oh, and I almost forgot. She shames him for being sickly and says she is tired of being his nurse. Now, I understand that being a caregiver is sometimes very hard, but, I tend to feel more sympathy for the sick individual, so, sorry, but that's another negative trait in my book!
The only character I have some sympathy for, is Adolf. He is in poor health, the woman he loves cheats on him and the man he considers his friend doesn't think of him as such. But unfortunately he is also not very well written.
I honestly tried my best to make myself clear. I hope I achieved that. But yeah, as you can see, this was another negative experience.
If you made it this far, congratulations!
'Til next time, take care :) :) :) -
اگرچه جنبههای زنستیزانه در نمایشنامه وجود داشت، اما در عینحال جنبههای روانکاوانه هم داشت که من خیلی خوشم اومد.
واکاوی عشق "آدولف" به زنش، بنظر من بسیار هنرمندانه و ریزبینانه بود. ولی به "گوستاو" و "تکلا" که میرسیم، نویسنده وارد فازهای ناتورالیستی میشه و دیگه خبری از واکاوی رفتارها نیست و این کمی توی ذوق میزد. -
سه کاراکتر منفعل استریندبرگ
که بر هم زخم میزنند و از هم زخم میپذیرند.
اگرچه به اندازهی سه قطعهی هانتکه شاهکار نیست،اما در بچواکهای نعلبندیان همیشه چیزی شکننده وجود داره. -
گوستاو : او (همسرت) را برای چه میخاهی؟
آدلف : پیش از این که کافر بشوم، خدا را برای چه میخاستم؟ برای پرستش.
گوستاو : احتیاج به پرستش را دفن کن و بگذار گیاهی سالمتر بر گور آن سبز شود. مثلن، یک تحقیر مفید.
آدلف : من اگر چیزی برای پرستش نداشته باشم، نمیتوانم زندگی کنم.
گوستاو : برده!
آدلف : من اگر زنی برای پرستش نداشته باشم، نمیتوانم زندگی کنم.
گوستاو : اوه، اگر تو باید چیزی داشته باشی که به ن وسیله خودت را تحقیر کنی، پس ترا به خدا دوباره به خدایت برگرد. کافری که زن را میپرستد! روشنفکری که نمیتواند آزاد فکر کند. آیا واقعن متوجهی این کیفیت مرموز ابوالهولمانندِ عمیقی که در همسرت هست، نیستی؟ احمقانه است! نگاه کن! او حتما حروف الفبا را هم نمیتواند از هم تشخیص بدهد. فقط لباس؛ همین. بهاش شلوار بپوشان، با مداد یک سبیل زیر دماغش بکش؛ و متین و خونسرد؛ بنشین و به حرفهایش گوش بده. آن وقت متوجه تفاوتی که هست، میشوی. او فقط ضبط صوتی است که حرفهای تو و آدمهای دیگر را تکرار میکند؛ منتها کمی رقیقتر ... تو هیچ وقت یک زن برهنه را دیدهیی؟ خب، حتمن. یک مردِ کامل نشده. بچهیی که رشدش نیمهکاره مانده. جوانی که پستان در سینهاش دارد. آدم کمخونی که به طور منظم سیزده بار در سال دچار خونریزی میشود. چه انتظاری از همچو مخلوقی داری؟
آدلف : اگر همه چیزهایی که میگویی راست است، پس چرا من هنوز هم او را با خودم یکی میبینم.
گوستاو : وهم! جاذبهی دامن او؛ و ... شاید هم در حقیقت شما شبیه هم شدهیید.
طلبکارها
اس��ریندبرگ
عباس نعلبندیان
فرامرز صدیقی در سال 1356 طلبکارها را کارگردانی کرد و در کنار منوچهر فرید و فرزانه تاییدی در تله تئاتر بازی کرد. خوشبختانه نسخهای از تله تئاتر طلبکارها در اینترنت موجود است و میتوان آن را دید. -
ترس از از دست دادنی که همیشه برای من مانعی بود که لذت ببرم، تو شخصیت آدولف دقیقا قابل درک بود برام. و اینکه انقد این ترس خورنده باشه، که عوامل بیرونی، با یه تلنگر کوچیک بتونن همه چیز رو نابود کنند.
انتهای نمایشنامه، دلتون می سوزه. برای لذت هایی که تبدیل به درد شدند. -
After I listened to the audiobook of the play, I went back and reread some sections in my Kindle edition of "Plays by August Strindberg, Second Series" and read the introduction to the play as well. One important fact that the introduction provided was that Strindberg wrote this play "... only a year before he finally decided to free himself from an impossible marriage by an appeal to the law...". Even with the wife Tekla clearly being portrayed as the "bad" one in the marriage, I noticed that there was a strong vein of feminism (similar to Ibsen's Hedda Gabler in many ways). For example, Tekla saying to her second husband:
"Isn't that lovely! Women can be stolen as you steal children or chickens? And you regard me as his chattel or personal property. I am very much obliged to you!"
The 'creditors' of the title are Tekla's former & current husbands as described in this passage:
Adolph: "To love like a man is to give; to love like a woman is to take. -- And I have given, given, given!"
Tekla: "Pooh! What have you given?"
Adolph: "Everything!"
Tekla: "That's a lot! And if it be true, then I must have taken it. Are you beginning to send in bills for your gifts now? ..."
And indeed he is, egged on by Gustav .
While none of the characters are completely 'true to life', they act out a situation & emotions that are. A thought-provoking play that I need to ponder further... -
I remember thinking this was okay, but three months later I can remember nothing about it without having to look it up. Never a good sign.
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I didn't read this but a couple months ago we saw a production at the Aurora Theatre in Berkeley (an excellent theatre company, this review notwithstanding), and it's one of those that was so abysmal I haven't been able to quite get it out of my system, hence I turn to Goodreads. Spoilers ahoy but I care not. So...
The idiocy of the play hit home for me when I realized the true context of the opening scene. Adolph, an impossibly weak and ineffectual man, husband to Tekla, is confiding to an older man, Gustav, every possible humiliating aspect of his marriage. So you think, well ok, obviously they are old friends with a level of trust that Adolph feels he can unburden himself. You'd think, wouldn't you? But no, as the play develops you come to realize Adolph has only known Gustav for a week. Yes, one week. And not only does he almost eagerly confide every dysfunctional detail and stray thought regarding his marriage to Tekla, you also learn that he's decided to ditch his career as a painter and turn to sculpture instead, why? Because Gustav, his bff of one entire week, made a couple comments suggesting that would be a good idea. Yes, really. You also learn that Tekla (yet to appear on stage) had a previous marriage until she dumped the guy for Adolph. Hmmm, might that be significant?
So who is this Gustav person? Well if you've never seen a play or read a story or even watched television before, why he's just this amiable stranger who's visiting the area and just happened to befriend Adolph and... --Wait! You don't think he might actually be Tekla's ex, do you? NO!! YES!!! NO!!! BUT YES!!!!
So Tekla returns, surprisingly not breathing fire and with several horns coming out of her head but pretty much normal, even nice. Gustav hides in another room. (This play relies ALOT on that device, making one wonder if Strindberg might be a spiritual father of bad sitcoms.) Adolph contrives to provoke an argument with Tekla over, I dunno, something because reasons--oh, and Gustav suggested it--then pretends to storm off, but actually goes to the room where Gustav is hiding. Then Gustav appears to Tekla, and hey, they know each other! oh right, I already spoiled that bit. Anyway, having just had an upsetting argument with her husband, Gustav takes about ten minutes to pretend to be nice and have no ulterior motive at all, and manipulates Tekla into agreeing to an assignation later that evening. By the way, even though he's listening in to all of this, and had no idea Gustav was Tekla's ex, Adolph stupidly does nothing and just continues to eavesdrop.
Eventually Gustav drops the pretense, admits he contrived all this just to get back at Tekla for leaving and humiliating him years before, says by the way, your husband has been listening to all this on the other side of that door, Tekla rushes to the door, a stricken Adolph collapses and dies, Gustav twirls his mustache in triumph and exits stage obvious, THE END.
My wife commented that this play makes Strindberg look like the original incel. Pretty much. -
I wouldnt say i enjoyed this play because it was about like many other Strindberg plays about males who try to defeat/seduce a woman and women written like a sort of maneating monster. The dialouge was powerful,technically,character wise it was more impressive than Miss Julie to me.
Tekla the female lead was not a weak victim like Miss Julie, i liked that. Strinderg had to make strong to show how her husand became weak because of her.
August Strindberg is better playwrighter than novelist but too many stories of his feel like he uses his fiction to fight back the winds of change in late 1800s when there were groups of women who wanted more rights. He is more interesting when he writes dream like plays and not realistic naturlism dramas about gender roles,family. -
I read this as part of a group read. I can imagine it would have been more powerful on stage than to read, especially at the time it was written.
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كلنا دائنون ومدينون
ولكن حين يأتي وقت الرد هل ستمتلك ما تدفع ؟! -
I'm not sure if I know how to feel about this play. I have found that Strindberg's works make me feel uncomfortable, which strikes me as a really odd sensation. Creditors was, in all essence, a bit haunting. In this play, two friends, Gustav and Adolphe, discuss Adolphe's wife, who actually used to be married to Gustav. Gustav makes Adolphe feel uncomfortable, then leaves him to argue with his wife. After Adolphe has left, Gustav tries to hit on his wife unsuccessfully, but little do they know that Adolhpe got so utterly stressed out that he had a massive seizure. Wow.
I don't really like the tone that Strindberg takes towards women. He makes the claim that women are not to be taken seriously, and if they are, that will result in death. I'm not sure that that's such a good message to be conveying, even if I'm fairly sure that he was merely responding to Ibsen's feminist plays for some part. Regardless, I dislike his attitude because it is so distracting. Other than that, this play worked as a relatively short one-act play. -
August Strindberg - misogynist or genius? (or both?) Not sure what to think of this, except that I would very much like to see it in production.
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Creditors is a three-character play in which August Strindberg reflects on what's worst in human intercourse and intimate relationships. It takes its title from the notion that in each husband/wife pairing there is one partner who takes and another who gives--gives so much that he or she is sucked dry.
The play is about a married couple, Adolf and Tekla. He is younger than she; he's her second husband (and one of the things that unites them is their contempt for and ridicule of her tyrannical first husband). She's a free thinker and a writer. He's a painter. Both view themselves as the "creditors" in their relationship. Did he teach her how to think and how to write, at the expense of his own art and health? (When we meet him, Adolf is a semi-invalid, unable to walk without a pair of canes, and devoid of inspiration; his new friend Gustav has suggested to him that he take up sculpting, but that doesn't seem to be a viable choice.)
Or did she nurture him, so that she is deserving of his tolerance and indulgence when she pursues flings and flirtations?
The play is divided into three scenes, each featuring a different pair of characters. Adolf and Gustav try to solve Adolf's problem in the first; then Adolf confronts his wife--bitterly and horribly--in the second. The resolution comes in the final scene, when Gustav meets Tekla. Creditors was written at the time of Strindberg's divorce, and it can feel reductive and misogynistic in places; it's also perhaps a bit longer than it needs to be. But it's compellingly raw and incisive, reducing romance and love to bleak transaction and artifice. -
1 act, 1 scene
wife, ex-husband (incognito) and wife's new lover
This is an accident waiting to happen!
Stindberg reveals in his plays....what his life was all about. -
اوممممم روند قصه خوب بود و نمیذاشت خوابآور بشه. برا من که این مدت همهچیز خوابآوره خیلی هم خوب بود. بعد دیگه اینکه اومممم کاراکتراش جالب بودن و یه حالت خوبی بود که میشد درکشون کرد قشنگ.
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Isben totally ripped this off.
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it revolves around nothing but revenge; revenge at its finest! I pity them, all the three of them.
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I've always been cautious with the name August Strindberg. I'm not familiar with his works, except Miss Julie, but I often connect his portrait with madness, sadness and not without boldness. Parts of these impressions are true, at least with Creditors.
I somehow feel there is something common between this play and Miss Julie that reveals about Strindberg and his view on women and marriage. Something astringent. I think I got to read Miss Julie again and come back to this review, more on our hero August Strindberg. -
Takové to, když něco čtete dřív než jste to schopni pochopit a docenit. Pokud jde o Creditors, hru jsem nejen četla, ale i viděla příliš brzy. Po letech jsem se k tomu vrátila a mám pocit, že jsem přečetla úplně něco jiného než tehdy. Bylo by jednoduché být pohoršena Gustavovým pohledem na Teklu, představou své vlastní nadřazenosti. Jenomže nikdo z nich není bez viny. Je mi jich líto a zároveň mám touhu stát na straně Gustava a přihlížet jak zasazuje poslední ránu. Mohla bych se vrátit o 8 let zpět a jít na tu derniéru ještě jednou, teď už z těch správných důvodů?
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Delicate play with only three characters demonstrates the universal love of all people.
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Forsmådd elsker skriver to-akter.
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Bardzo dobra sztuka, z niecierpliwością czekam na spektakl. (Już w Grudniu!)
